Friday, October 09, 2009

Sick of Flannagan Supporters

Sick of Flannagan Supporters, that's the screen name someone recently used to leave a comment on the blog.

I'm starting to share the sentiment. Will Flanagan seems like a pretty nice guy. He comes across well, and speaks with a Kennedy-esque style, (although a somewhat wooden one). He promises change because he's the 'outsider' and not a 'career politician' or some such.

However, and this may come as a shock to his supporters, Will Flanagan is not perfect.

A perfect example is the story is today's Herald News. Will is accusing Cathy Ann of making deceptive and misleading statements. This basically boils down to Will in last Monday's debate saying that he would repeal the "rain tax" and make up the revenue by refinancing the loans for the CSO project. In response Cathy Ann said those loans were at 0%, which is not completely true. Only one of the loans is at a 0%, so Cathy Ann deserves to get a little grief here and she's getting it on the Herald News comment section. But, what caught my attention was this:

Flanagan said he has been in contract with banking leaders and legal firms
to determine the savings that could be produced by refinancing the CSO-related
loans. He said it had not yet been determined what those savings would be.“We’re
still crunching the numbers,” Flanagan said.

Hold on! He is saying this is how he will make up the revenue and he doesn't even know what the savings would be! He's crunching numbers!!

Isn't that a little deceptive??

Also why did Will wait 4 days to to bring this up? It sounds to me like he hadn't done his homework and had to do some quick studying to figure out if Viveiros was right or not.

By bringing it up now he has given Viveiros the opportunity to expand on her answer:

She said Thursday she is aware there are a variety of loans, which she said
ranged from zero percent to 2 percent, but that producing savings from those
loans would not make a significant difference.“We have gotten the best rates we
can expect, and to suggest that raising $5.2 million through restructuring debt
is naive and not reflective of an awareness of the financial markets,” Viveiros

He also gave her the chance to nail him on another point:

The city councilor also said Flanagan’s idea to increase sewer rates on
out-of-town users, as he stated at the forum, is not legal because the city’s
wastewater treatment plant was built as a regional facility and included
conditions to make the plant available to other users.“If we try to breach that
contract we’d be in court, and that is not a good use of tax dollars,” Viveiros
said. “We have so many better things to spend our money on than court expenses.”

Will states that he is trying to bring fresh thinking to the Mayor's office but:

“By refinancing our debt and by extending our payments on the CSO program
we as a city will be better situated to protect our citizens during these
tough economic

This isn't fresh thinking, we've refinanced loans before, and I personally am not in favor of extending our payments. Fall River has a terrific amount of long term debt and we need to pay things off and free up capital not extend the payments and handicap future administrations. He now brings up a second proposal that seems guaranteed to get us into court. I suppose he'll offer to fight this one himself too! Will Will ever have time to run the city?

After the primary WSAR asked both candidates how they would deal with more 9C cuts in the next fiscal year and Will responded that we need to make Fall River less dependent on state aid. Well THAT is not happening in the next 6 months!

Like I said before Will seems like a really nice guy but Fall River is in tough shape. I've heard lots of rhetoric from Will. I have heard lots of support and proposals for ideas that are already on the drawing board (taking down Rt. 79 and a Green Park come to mind). What I haven't heard is anything that makes me think he is ready to run a city of 90 thousand with a 200-220 million dollar budget.

This isn't some endorsement of Cathy Ann Viveiros, because neither of these candidates were my choice in the primary. And I keep waiting for Will to convince me that he's the guy. I keep trying to figure out what makes his supporters so loyal. Perhaps it would help if they would take of the rose colored glasses and admit that Will's not perfect.


Anonymous said...

So Lefty, you and Shamrock are endorsing Cathy Ann Viveiros? Interesting. You all were gung-ho about a 28 year old mayoral candidate 2 years ago so what's changed?

Lefty said...

What's changed? Not a thing! I'm still voting for Eric Poulin.

Anonymous said...

Here we go comparing Will Flanagan to Eric Poulin again... Why do you insist on doing this?

Anonymous said...


I think the question was what has changed since you wanted a 28 year old MAYORAL candidate named eric poulin. Isn't inexperience what you are questioning now in flanagan?

I also take offense to the rose colored glass comment. If you wanted to know the truth about cathy anne there are plenty of people that have had business and employer dealings that you could ask.

I would be more than happy to share their names with you but
Evidently if I comment on her past performance you will call me negative and a flanagan supporter.


Lefty said...

I agree! There really is no comparison. And it would be silly to support a candidate just because of his age.

Also I am not endorsing Cathy Ann Viveiros. I am am simply pointing out that Will's supporters love to jump on her ever 'flaw' while blindly overlooking his.

Lefty said...


Eric has 6 years experience working in the Mayor's office. 6 years of seeing the day to day operations of our city. On top of that he had a platform that was specific and detailed. I knew what Eric wanted to do and how he would go about accomplishing it.

I have gotten nothing like that from Will Flanagan.

I also don't think I was gung-ho for Eric back in 2007. I believe I was objective. I wrote when I was critical of Eric and had friends tell me back then that they didn't realize I supported him.

Again, I haven't endorsed Cathy Ann. I have my issues with her as a candidate. I will say I think she's better prepared. Certianly she has more experience. On the occasions that I have had to talk to her I have found she can articulate a viewpoint. I have disagreed with Cathy and yet respected that she could explain to me her reasons for voting a certain way.

As for the rose colored glasses, you're only wearing them if you refuse to objectively look at your candidate. As the "truth" about Cathy Ann, honeslty the Mother Teresa could run for Mayor and somebody would have SOMETHING negative to say.

You can make whatever case you want about Cathy's past, as long as you can back it up.

Sick of Flannagan Supporters said...

Other than similar ages, and similar campaign slogans (because Will "borrowed" Eric's) there is absolutely no comparison between Flanagan and Poulin. Poulin speaks in specifics while Flanagan strings cliches together for answers.

Anonymous said...

I like Cathy Anne but is that Cathy Anne's whole campaign strategy now? She and her supporters are going to say that Will Flanagan is no Eric Poulin? These snappy slogans aren't going to work on those of us that engage in critical thinking. However, it possibly is a smart strategy since I know some are voting for Will as a way to make up for not voting for Poulin. It's a dumb reason to vote but Poulin does have a strong following that each candidate should try to draw from.

As an old-timer I have to ask, doesn't Cathy Anne's strategy seem ripped off from the 1988 Vice Presidential Debates when Dukakis' running mate told Dan Quayle, "I knew Jack Kennedy and you're no Jack Kennedy?"

Poulin has my vote for Council because he is a solid candidate but I never understood why his supporters were so strong in their support. It's almost like a cult. Does he inspire you that much?

When Poulin speaks he definitely gives specifics but his oratory is sometimes long-winded and boring and not like Barack Obama. Okay, we get that you know the issues, it ends up sounding like he is trying too hard. I don't see him firing people up with rousing speeches about hope. I give him credit for doing his homework on issues but to compare him to his mentor Lambert, Lambert had more style and less substance. Poulin has more substance and less style. Unfortunately style wins you elections and if you want to be an elected official that is the first hurdle to overcome, to actually get elected.

Only time will tell if Poulin can get elected but I know for a fact there are a number of people working to make sure that doesn't happen. I hope he and his supporters realize that him finishing in the top 9 is not a guarantee or a slam dunk. One thing about being generic vs. specific, specific may lose you more votes. People want change until you tell them exactly how you are going to do it.

Don't assume that Will's lack of detail at times isn't a campaign strategy to get elected. Give him and his campaign credit for getting him in the final. They are smart not dumb and to assume they are dumb is probably underestimating them.

Anonymous said...

While "generic" may be Will's strategy, it is not appreciated, and it lost my vote and the vote of everyone I know.

Anonymous said...

If Will's strategy is to dodge all specifics, that makes him just another politician. Someone I won't be voting for in November.

Anonymous said...

Bottom line, if specifics were so great then why didn't Poulin win that election? Either people didn't like his ideas or people don't vote on long-winded explanations of the intricacies of municipal issues and local government.

Some people are meant to be nerdy, in the background detail people and others are meant to be leaders. A leader has to inspire and motivate through their public speaking and then they can put someone like an Eric Poulin around them to help with the details. Obviously Ed Lambert had that strategy down and was right. In some ways Poulin deserved to get smacked down because he really didn't know his place.

Will appealed to people's emotions in the last debate and Cathy did the same although presented a few more facts and figures. The voters are going to decide which they like more but we know based on past history that it ain't gonna be the one that presents the most facts and figures.

You people commenting that one candidate has more info then the other or that neither is being specific enough for you don't represent the majority of voters in Fall River. Nerdy computer geeks who comment on blogs aren't going to decide the next election. Deal with it. If you had elected Poulin as mayor a couple of years ago and you saw people like Mike Miozza getting on the city council then I would admit that you all are a force to be reckoned with but you're not.

This election is going to be decided by elderly voters and others who could care less about a public safety or economic development platform. People care more about gossip, they care more about who's the prettiest and about who feeds them hot dogs. Whoever plays that game the best wins in Fall River. Always has been that way and probably always will be.

Take this city forward, to the next level, hope, take the 6th floor to the people, blah blah blah said...

Will is easily one of the worst public speakers I have ever be subjected to, you better hope public speaking skills don't win elections. He instills no confidence in me whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

I agree, Will is a horrible speaker. Even when he has partial facts right, he can't bring them home. He looks like an idiot. To me that isn't polished at all. I can't think of one time he has emotionally inspired anyone.

Not to mention, he isn't even decent looking. So where do his fans get off saying how handsome he is? He has a face for radio for crying out loud!

Anonymous said...

I know and cathy howdy doody does too they should both be on the radio.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Cathy is pretty hot...

Lefty said...

If specifics are so great why didn't Poulin win the election?!

First off, it's sad but true that most people vote based on a candidates appeal. How does does he look? sound? How charasmatic is he? Or she!

But you simplify the question far too much. Why didn't Eric win!? First off, in 2007 you didn't have a hated incumbent running for reelection. You had a 30 year State Rep, who had a solid lock on the South End, had tons of ability to raise money and lots of name recognition. On top of that you had Dave Sullivan who also is state rep, with great name recognition and a very good fundraiser. You had Kilby, Alves, and Whitty, all sitting councilors who had tons of name recognition and all raised decent amounts of money. In 2009 Cathy, Ray, and Steve all raised and spent around 25k and Will got away with only 17k, in 2007 Will would have been grossly outspent.

I would easily say that 2007 was a tougher campaign year. Bob, Dave, and Brad combined spent close to 300k!

How do you compete with that!

Eric ran a very successful campaign based on that fact that he had little to no name recognition at the start and never had the money to compete with Bob, Dave etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

I agree that Mr. Flanagan does not have the best public speaking skills. But I had the opportunity to speak to him one on one when he knocked on my door. He appeared sincere and intelligent.

It seems you are tired of Flanagan supporters because they speak against your candidate. I am sure the Flanagan people are just as tired of the Cathy people.

Tolerance becomes low when in conflict with our beliefs. That is the name of the game. Let's see it for what it is.

shamrock said...

Someone tried to out me because I wasn't voting for Will Flanagan. That sucks and it goes beyond just supporting their candidate.

Lefty said...

Cathy Ann is not my candidate. It's true that chances are that is who I will vote for, but I have yet to make up my mind.

I think I'm tired of his supporters because any effort by me to learn more on where he stands is greeted with this brigade of Will-o-philes who believe that he can do no wrong.

Again this news story is a perfect example, Cathy blew it. She could have articulated a more factual answer and then her response in the HN doesn't match Flanagan's numbers. (BTW it would have been nice for the HN to pick up on that and let us know the factual info!)but Flangan's answer is just as deceptive. Will saying he will repeal the rain tax and use refi savings to make up the difference is like Bob Corriea balancing the budget but reducing salaries by 8% before knowing if anyone would agree to it.

I truly hope to have the time to talk to Will Flanagan to get to better understand his positions and his philosophy.

I would like to reach out to both candidates and here what they are going to do and HOW they are going to do it.

Anonymous said...

Bob Correia had an interesting interview on the radio today. Correia said that there was no way to restructure the CSO loans, that we got the best rates we could possibly get and there was no way to extend them out longer. It seemed like he was taking Cathy's side or endorsing Cathy but then it seems like he caught himself and was trying to be nice to Will because he said something like well it's okay that Will didn't know it because you really don't have any idea about a lot of things until you are in the mayor's office. I was racking my brain trying to think of where I'd heard that before so I took a trip through the Herald News archives, "The bottom line is unless you’ve been the mayor or worked in the office, you don’t have a clue how a city functions on a day-to-day basis,” Poulin said. This was in an article from September on Will and Cathy breaking age and gender barriers in their quest for the mayor's seat. So I knew Will and Cathy stole Poulin quotes and ideas from time to time but now Bob Correia? I think we got the wrong guy in the mayor's office two years ago and I agree with Lefty that we had a weak field for mayor this year. I don't know why he didn't run again for mayor but I have no doubt Poulin could've beaten everyone without breaking too much of a sweat. Guess he just didn't want to be mayor, he walked away from it.

Anonymous said...

I say we all start a write in campgain for Eric Poulin for Mayor

Anonymous said...

Lefty if you are going to have a blog then please be honest. You have stated publicly that you have voted for Cathy Ann. Now I know you may say otherwise due to a job in the public sector or past relations with the radio station. But you owe it to your readers to be honest.

SarahW said...

great post.the comments really are heated as well. You should get in touch with the bizymoms Fall-river community to feature this on their page.

Lefty said...

Anon 11:12,

I am not sure what the heck you mean. I did not vote for Cathy Ann in the primary and I have not made up my mind on the general election.

There is a good chance it will be Cathy because when I look at her website, when I listen to her debate, etc. she does a better job of convincing me she can run the city.

Will has got a handful of weeks to convince me otherwise.

Anonymous said...

can we discuss some of these new ideas to run the city??

She said that she would create a tourism director for the city.

what happened to not adding salaries and having private sector volunteer? the city has a tourism volunteer from arts united.

She spoke of appointing community liasons to work with her administration to share ideas as to how to keep neighborhoods clean and safe

It's called Save our neighborhoods and neighborhood associations which are already in place??

Viverios pointed out that she has led by example and that she would run a more efficient Mayor's office. She would initiate a customer service training bureau in her office that would offer quality customer service training to people who deal with the public as well as those who work with their fellow employees in City Hall. She said that there will be respect for all people in her administration, creating "a team effort to move the city forward."

Exceptional Customer Service by Fred Pryor Seminars US $89.95

Anonymous said...

Promises, promises.

The following excerpts were taken, verbatim, from Fall River Mayor Robert Correia’s campaign Web site,

Bob will work to create attractive and affordable lending programs for small businesses.

Bob Correia will call upon local business owners to join me in developing and implementing an effective plan for Downtown Development. “I will reach out to leaders in the tourism-related businesses to create a coordinated effort on tourism and culture. In addition, I will promote Fall River’s workforce strengths to biotechnology companies for jobs of the 21st century.

Fall River needs a full-time tourism director and, as Mayor, Bob would utilize a portion of the local room tax revenues to support this position.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:01

Are you sure you weren't reading Cathy Ann's site? Oh that's right, birdbrains of a feather flock and fib together.

Lazurusisus said...

Lasurusisus here....come visit me on my blogspot ! I invite you all...but I Love this blog right here!..I sincerly hope you will add me to your must visit list...

I'm NOT taking sides in this beef...I am one who believes that there is much left to do in terms of ridding the City of the deadwood on both School Committee and City Council, so we are only two hrids of the way there....I do , however, feel that Flanagan has to come up with more specific information related to how the City's finances really work, and what has been done in the last year...The City's finances and how to grow them are THE issue right now, everything else is secondary.

With regard to the bond issue for the CSO project, sure, you can take out a bond issue for a lower rate to pay off the older issues, but I'm pretty sure the max term for the item in question is 30 years...the length of term for specific items (like water and sewer projects) is spelled out in specifics by the MGL's, Chapter 35, I think.....and there is most likely a mix of fed and state statutes which apply to different loans for differing stages of the project that will dictate length and terms (interest rate)....the actual claculation is easy because they apply simple interest rates broken out by pay down dates - usually two a year - seperating principal and interest due on those for Flanagan to estimate the new debt service should only be hampered by the rate, which depends on the city's bond rating....that rate associated with the type of project, amount and term should be listed in any one of many finance journals or web should be a very simple calculation to m ake, as lo ng as you have a PC and excel...

Keep up the good discussions folks....hope to see you over on chowmeinsammich....I'm glad that which over at the HN BANNED ME LONG AGO...THIS IS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER!


reality check said...

Cathy said the bonds were between 0% and 2%, when some were actually as high as 5%. There is an obvious slant to your comment, as you pick apart Flanagan's proposal while dismissing Cathy's lie. She knew exactly what she was saying when she threw that comment out, and the reason he didn't respond then was because it was made in her closing comments and there was no chance that evening to respond. Your bias is showing.

Lazurusisus said...

I would have to know the breakdown of the amounts and terms of each loan...if I had those numbers I could calculate the debt service in a couple hours time...but since I don't, I have no real clue whether what he said is true or not...I'm sure there is some savings, but how much was taken out at 5%? Also, you have to include the actual bank issuance costs and bond insurance costs in order to obtain market insurance would typically be taken out for a large issue in order to prevent the city like Fall River, with a rather poor rating,from being sued out of existance by bondholders if they failed to make payment, which is actually more likely to happen the more the gap grows between what we raise and tax here and what we need to pay for everything else in the budget.....and the rate of the bond insurance goes up as the City's rating goes down...and right now, without up to date (FY09) audited financials, it sure ain't good......I don't think will has as good a handle on the relative importance of overall financial factors, other than debt, that impact Fall River as much as CAV does at this time....and he really won't truly know that before the election...and I mean really know it, even if he has the finance people in Taunton holding cram sessions 8 hours a day until then........and God knows, lol, there isn't ANYONE in Fall River qualified to do it either...lmao, rofl...But I could be convinced if I hear SPECIFICS.....

Lefty said...

Reality Check,

There is no bias. Will said some were as high as 5%.The Herald never bothered to confirm what which candidate was right. The Herald never bothered to provide a breakdown of all the loans. So I have no way of knowing which candidate is in the right. Heck they could both be wrong.

Now at the debate Cathy Ann was obviously wrong. She made some statement about 0% percent when that obviously doesn't apply to all the loans.

I get WHY Will is charging her with deceptive comments. If she knew that did not apply to all the loans she deserves the criticism.

However, if Will knew she was wrong right then and there why did he wait 4 days to make the accusation?

And again Will says he will repeal the rain water fee and refinance the CSO loans to make up the revenue, bu he doesn't know what the savings of refiancing would be. How can he say this is how he is going to make up the revenue when he admits in the article he has know idea what the savings would be? THAT is deceptive!

Lefty said...


Thanks for commenting. Just reading your comment makes me think you have a much better grasp on the specifics of this than I do. Maybe better than what the candidates do!

I have stopped by your blog quite a few times and would urge others to check it out.

reality check said...

Lefty, not like you to rely on the HN for your info. It's also pretty weak to try and make an issue out of the fact that Flanagan took four days to respond. Cathy also claims that single family homeowners had an overall reduction in their bills even with the CSO fee. Maybe she can explain why with the same usage, my bill after the CSO fee implementation has not gone down, but actually is $142 higher.

Lefty said...

Reality Check,

On the contrary, I often have to rely on the Herald simply because they are the paper of record. Also as a blogger. This is something I have touched on before.

If I can find a breakdown of the loans and interest rates I will let you know. Until then I am not assuming either side is correct.

And you may feel it's weak, but can you explain the delay? I certainly wouldn't have waited 4 days.

As for your bill, I would suggest sending a copy of it to Councilor Viveiros.

Set The Record Straight said...

Flanagan is the one being deceptive by calling the CSO Fee, an "Illegal Tax".

Anonymous said...

Will was just parroting what a blogger had said about the tax. He took the blog and ran with it, making it his only real issue. But he doesn't even have a solution on how to pay for it.

Lazurusisus said...

I just don't get it...why would a candidate for office take something suggested on a blog and run with it as a campaign issue? Not too sure I accept that premise...but I will note that I did not hear Mr. Flanagan's suggested savings resulting from re-bonding the CSO project at "lower" interest I said, with the breakdown of debt service numbers from the debt service chart or schedule the City has from it's debt on all projects, he should have been fully prepared to answer that charge SPECIFICLY....the fact that I did not hear it leads me to believe that either he gave the answer out during the great BLACKOUT on the TV coverage, or he skipped the issue totally, because he lacked the information or expertise on how to do the simple calculations to determine the doesn't even need a compound interest calculation because they use a simple interest rate...not impressed by what I'm seeing and hearing from Mr. Flanagan....I think I know who I'm voting for now...

Anonymous said...

Yeah I'm voting for letter c, none of the above. Now I know why they allow you to do a write in vote.

Anonymous said...

October 24, 2008

Will's legal opinion
Nov 10, 2008

Anonymous said...

So from your post evidently shamrock agreed that the stormwater tax is wrong and now agrees with cathy that it is right?

Anonymous said...

Maybe it's because the Appeals Court ruling on the burial fees which was the basis for the suggestion that the stormwater fee is illegal was subsequently overturned by the state's highest court. Flanagan was so invested in the 'stormwater fee is illegal' talking point and it is such a big part of his campaign that he can't or won't back away from it.

Lazurusisus said...

OK..seen enough, heard enough, had enough....At some point you have to go with who you understand to be the better candidate....this guy Flanagan is inexperienced and not well versed in how real day to day government works. He's been a Asst. City Attorney for Taunton for a grand total of one year, a City not known as a well run municipality. He just won't be able to do the job. He, not CAV, will be the lil bobby correia clone, having to rely on hacks and hanger on's to muddle through running this City...we cannot afford to have that again. Remember folks, the 9C cuts have to be determined by Oct 15, TOMORROW! It is required by law. I don't need to put my support with someone who speaks in the most banalelection year generalities and spews out invective towards an opponent then leaves it there like a bag of dog crap lit on fire , left on your door stoop , on halloween. The time for these childish games in Fall River is over. The real difference will be available for all to see after the 9C cuts are announced. I know which candidate will be better positioned, by experience and training, to help Fall River through this crisis. It's not a guy who has one year of tangential municipal experience and has never held office before. No, My choice is an unapologetic one. I will vote for competence, ability and experience, Cathy Ann Viveiros! I have said so on my site as well..


Anonymous said...

A vote for a political opportunist is nothing to celebrate. Neither is a vote for empty rhetoric but I will take it if those 2 are my choices.

Margaret Croke said...

Rhetoric and avoidance of the issues. That's what Flanagan has to offer. He plans on spending more money that we don't have to fight the adult entertainment district and repeal the CSO tax. Come on, with $600 million in budget cuts being handed to the cities and town by October 30th, we have bigger issues at hand. At least Cathy Ann has some sort of strategy on how to deal with this issues. All I keep hearing from Flanagan is that he wants to listen to the people, make symbolic gestures, be a street level mayor, etc. When budget cuts come around, I want someone with a clue running my city. I want a new Middle School in the North end and I want to decide with educators and administrators what resources are neeeded at my child's school. Furthermore, I don't want to repeal a CSO tax that will end up soting me much more money in the long run. To me, Cathy Ann just makes more sense right now. As mayor, there will be tough decisions ahead and I am confident that she will make the right decisions in these difficult times.

Margaret Croke

Lazurusisus said...

I have to agree - If Will was running for Mayor in a City that has plenty of money to spend on labor contract increases and construction projects galore, I could see where his approach might be acceptable, even for a guy with less than one FULL TIME equivalent of a years expreience in tangential public management. Because being even a full time City Attorney would not even come close to meeting the requirements of running a City with the financial and personnel issues the size of Fall River. Given what we face, we need someone familiar with the issues, govenrning bodies and finaces of this City ready to go one day one, not someone who will have to rely on help from previous adminsitrations that may be trying to point Will in the directions THEY want him to go.
Even more reason to vote for CAV!

Anonymous said...

And cathy had 2 years to address many issues in the city, she did not. what makes you think she will do it as mayor?

Lazurusisus said...

Simple...she will be setting the agenda, not responding to the initiatives set forth by the Power-hungry facist correia....The City Charter gives almost all the power to the Mayor to chart the course for the City's finances and schools. No one City Council member can do it alone...the charter makes that so...Once you're Mayor, you set the agenda!

Anonymous said...

Great so if she continues to flip flop she alone can set her own agenda and handle the city finances as well as her own ?

Lazurusisus said...

LOL...well, at least she knows what her name is...are you KIDding me...what has your KID ever accomplished in his life...does your KID own property in Fall River? Has your KID ever served on any other elected boards or commissions in Fall River? Does he need correia and almbert people to tell him how to balance the budget and stay away from the books of the city so their possible transgressions will never be found? Is that what your Kid is all about?
You guys schilling for Flanagan/Silvia just can't make intelligent arguements to support your all sound like a collection of uneducated tea you'll be calling her a, go watch a Glenn beck re-run and be moved by his phont tears.....and enjoy your proerty tax increase slam, thanks to little bobby correia!